Curse

D Fault · Apr 23, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

After countless people in SF have complained/rage quit groups because of my use of heal area on minions, I decided to test and record using both heal area and blood of the master to see if heal area caused the minion to die faster.

I did the test in The Isle of the Nameless using one of the dummies for corpses.
I used 16 Death and 9 Healing to make heal area heal for 120 and BotM heal for 122.
Used a bone fiend so it wouldnt run away to attack stuff.
For each test I raised the fiend and then used BotM/HA 5 times in a row, then waited for it to die.
If heal area really does cause minions to die faster, this would show it.

Separated into 2 files makes time easier to see.

Using BotM:
http://files.filefront.com/MM_BotMwm.../fileinfo.html

Using HA:
http://files.filefront.com/MM_HAwmv/.../fileinfo.html

Insomnia is Tiring · Apr 23, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

People may think this, seeing as though it's holy powers and undead are weak against it...not entirely sure but I use the healing trap -one of the ranger skills (this is because I use minions -makes me feel safer when surrounded in them

)

This Is A Monk Dude · Apr 23, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Not to sure but I think the bone horror that is effected by heal area. For some reason I remember in pre that when I unlocked Horrors in the skill description is said something about a faster degen when healed. I can totaly wrong tho.

This Is A Monk Dude · Apr 23, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

double post really sorry : (

fallot · Apr 23, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Minions gain pips of degen over time, the longer you keep them alive the less manageable they become. Heal Area causing minions to degen faster is a myth, but it could have grounds in the fact that since HA allows you to keep minions alive for longer, they eventually have 10 pips of degen and visible deteriorate.

Pr1nc355SaRa · Apr 23, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

well i use HA, BotM and VS. i have no problems keeping my minions alive, doing many a SF run with and without HA there wasn't much difference. i like HA because it heals moi aswell.

and if people want to rant and flame me for it i just find another team, or play with friends and guildies.

and i must say in Tombs i've been complemented on having so many minions up, so much so that people get trapped in them!

just my opinion though. we all play our builds slightly differently eh? don't think the game would be as fun if you had to use a specific build exactly as it says on the tin, why have so many different possible skills if you never use half of them?

Hella Good · Apr 23, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I like HA with my minions. Do Veratas, then follow up with HA, and it's all good. You're not going to sustain them longer with BotM. And you won't have a convenient (and powerful) self-heal.

Veron · Apr 23, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

People who still think that Monk healing spells hurt minions aren't worth playing with.

Murder In China · Apr 23, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Common rumor that is false.

thelessa · Apr 23, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Ran into that last night, someone saying that the heal area hurts the minions more then predatory season does. Tried to set him straight, but decided to just let it go. Let them think what they will, we know better.

SlipknotOFA · Apr 23, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Im usally a glyph mm when I go to sf and ive noticed when monks use heal area on my minion they start to die faster but I really never tested but it seems glyphing verta scarifse makes your minions live faster but thats just me I can usually keep a good group alive threw most of it. and heal area only goes threw like a group of seven or eight when you use it

Carinae · Apr 23, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Proof that healing doesn't hurt minions:

All minions start at -1 degen, and that increases at a rate of -1 pip every 20 seconds. This means they normally reach max degen (-10) after exactly 3 minutes.

It also means that Verata's Sacrifice will break even at 3 minutes. no degen, no regen.

So, test it like this:

1) Look at the clock.
2) Raise a minion, horror or fiend.
3) Cast Verata's Sacrifice and keep recasting it for 3 minutes.
4) Spam Heal Area (or other monk heal spell) while VS recharges. You can get off 3-4 HAs in the normal recharge cycle.
5) Observe that VS breaks even at 3 minutes regardless of the use of monks heals.

If monk heals increased minion degen, the regeneration window of VS would be much shorter than 3 minutes. In fact, if you spammed HA three times between every VS cast, then VS would break even after just one minute, which clearly is not happening.

If you don't believe the naturaly regen rate I quoted, re-run the experiment and skip step 4 (the heal step) and see how long until VS breaks even.

imaginary friend · Apr 23, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

The heal area myth is not true... but on the other hand, why would you be a n/mo just to heal them? BoTM and VS do the same job. By going n/mo with HA your wasting your precious attribute points into something that has the same affect as BoTM. If you want to make bigger armies... be a n/me with echo as an elite.

D Fault · Apr 24, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Proof that healing doesn't hurt minions:

All minions start at -1 degen, and that increases at a rate of -1 pip every 20 seconds. This means they normally reach max degen (-10) after exactly 3 minutes.

It also means that Verata's Sacrifice will break even at 3 minutes. no degen, no regen.

So, test it like this:

1) Look at the clock.
2) Raise a minion, horror or fiend.
3) Cast Verata's Sacrifice and keep recasting it for 3 minutes.
4) Spam Heal Area (or other monk heal spell) while VS recharges. You can get off 3-4 HAs in the normal recharge cycle.
5) Observe that VS breaks even at 3 minutes regardless of the use of monks heals.

If monk heals increased minion degen, the regeneration window of VS would be much shorter than 3 minutes. In fact, if you spammed HA three times between every VS cast, then VS would break even after just one minute, which clearly is not happening.

If you don't believe the naturaly regen rate I quoted, re-run the experiment and skip step 4 (the heal step) and see how long until VS breaks even.

Thats what I did, but without veratas so it wouldnt take as long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imaginary friend

The heal area myth is not true... but on the other hand, why would you be a n/mo just to heal them? BoTM and VS do the same job. By going n/mo with HA your wasting your precious attribute points into something that has the same affect as BoTM. If you want to make bigger armies... be a n/me with echo as an elite.

Heal area works better because it also heals you, so you're not a drain on the monk. Also doesnt require many points to be as effective as BotM. BotM can be more useful when enemies are close to our minions ad you want to heal them without healing the bad guys.

CHunterX · Apr 24, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Glyph of Renewal+Veratas Sac
Better than HA imo

Murder In China · Apr 24, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Heal Area heals you, me, them, us, everyone, and minions. You can't always rely on your monk to heal you everytime you sacrifice yourself.

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 24, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

On my Necro, I like using the N/R combo when playing as Minion Master. Winnowing can be a slight help, with the +4 physical damage. And as mentioned, Healing Spring can give your minions a quick boost over 10 seconds (although it's rarely necessary).

Silent Elvin Ranger · Apr 26, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

What about that old skool pre-made MM build...where u use N/R for a pet (basically a permenant minion) and horrors and fiends? I usually run echo mm cause of the fact there isn't that great oof elites for death magic...oooo wait till factions with that 1 elite...sumthing golem...dammit i forgot.

Solberg the Exiled · Apr 26, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

HA making minions die faster is clearly just BS. Although I don't use it, I know that healing them does not make them die faster. I just find that I would rather use 16 in death and 16 in soul instead of putting extras in to healing prayers. Verata's and Botm will do just fine.